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Observer said in October 3rd, 2009 at 10:28 am

Steve – could you expound on this a bit, with regard to “Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist?” Thanks!

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Steve said in October 4th, 2009 at 9:34 am

On one level the idea of Christ’s real presence is not problematic. Almost all Christians can agree that Jesus is really present when Christians gather in His Name by His Holy Spirit. Theologically, though, the word “real” denotes a belief that the substance of Christ’s body is present in the bread and wine replacing the substance of bread and wine (the sacrament ceases to be bread and wine and becomes body and blood). There is, however, no scriptural basis for this understanding and it was replaced in Reformation theology by a more biblical belief that of Christ’s physical body is and remains at the right hand of the Father while Christ’s presence with His people is in and through His Spirit.

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Observer said in October 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

Thank you. I thought I understood the Calvinist approach – the presence of Christ is via the Holy Spirit – and I gather from your explanation that this is in accordance with your thinking as well. I also thought that Anglicans were not of one mind on this, and that some of the more Anglo-catholics hold a view very close to Transubstantiation, even though the Thirty Nine Articles (#28 I think) calls Transubstantiation “repugnant to the plain words of Scripture.”

I’m trying to understand this better, as an Episcopal Church I attend from time to time says the Eucharist is open to all Baptized and Confirmed Christians who believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. This is different than the Congrerationalist/Presbyterian churches of my upbringing.

Thanks for all you assistance. Any additional guidance or pointers to good resources would be welcome.

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Steve said in October 4th, 2009 at 4:33 pm

Observer. Thanks for your good questions and search for understanding. It is refreshing! To pick up a few threads in your response: the point of view I advocate isn’t a Calvinist approach. It is an Anglican approach – and a Reformation approach. This understanding is enshrined in the 39 Articles, the rubrics of the services and the historic prayer of consecration. It is often Anglo-Catholic prejudice (I’m not applying this to you personally, but somewhere you’ve encountered the statement) to dismiss it as such – as if it were something less, or other, than “Anglican.”
Anglicanism is – and only makes sense as – a Protestant church. Globally, this remains the case. While there are certainly many faithful Anglo-Catholics I find the rise of Anglo-Catholicism concomitant with the demise of the Episcopal Church: the rise of ritualism, extra-biblical teaching, a faulty understanding of the “catholic” nature of the church, the invocation of Mary and the saints, a magical view of the sacraments and a host of other suspect practices and doctrines denuded the faith of our reforming fathers & mothers and have left us a sad an impotent church – in a century+ long theological decline which has finally manifested itself in numerical losses of the past generation. Sadly, the mass departure of the Evangelical wing of the Episcopal Church in the mid-late 19th Century opened a wide door for the re-emergence of those practices the Anglican Reformers sought to purge from Anglicanism.
The example you give of your own parish’s practice is a wonderful example of the fussy and extra-biblical/canonical excesses of Anglo-Catholicism. It is the teaching of the church that any BAPTIZED Christian is welcome at the Table of the Lord with no qualifying element of confirmation (not a sacrament) or recognition of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Makes me sad to see the traditions of man emerging once again to separate the people for whom Christ died from Christ, Himself.
I have a few books on my shelf that you might find interesting. I’ll follow-up when I’m back in the office tomorrow. Blessings.

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Observer said in October 5th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

Thanks Steve. Sometimes the “via media” is so wide, I have trouble finding where the edges are. I didn’t mean to suggest that if something was Calvinist, that it was not Anglican. Rather, I was trying to be descriptive of which end of the “via media” spectrum I thought the concept resided. From my Presbyterian roots, it is certainly well within my comfort zone.

If you have a moment while you are in the office, the titles of the books you mentioned would be of interest to me.

Thanks again!

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Steve said in October 5th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

Observer: thanks for your post. The first book I’d recommend is “Cranmer on the Lord’s Supper: A Defence of the True and Catholic Doctrine of the Sacrament”. It is out of print but I’m guessing some internet sleuthing could track it down. The book was published by Focus Christian Ministries Trust and the ISBN is 1870223004. The book is simply Thomas Cranmer’s writings on the the topic of the Lord’s Supper. It can be a slow read, but it’s not long, and a slow read is not all bad.

The other book, for now, that I’d recommend is “Our Anglican Heritage” by John Howe – available at Amazon.

If interested after these I’d be happy to refer you to other books.

Blessings.

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Observer said in October 5th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

Again, many thanks. I’ll take the “independent study” route for a while now that you have given me the roadmap. I find personal discovery works better for me than “spoon feeding.” Probably one of the reasons I enjoy your blog. Always more food for tought. And thanks for the offer of more referrals – the future will tell if I need to take you up on that. You have been a blessing – may you receive so many more.

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Fr John Parker said in October 20th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

Steve,

Your description here misses the mark terribly, and is certainly far off not only the Biblical witness, but also the practice and teaching of the undivided Church. The Biblical references above, for example, omit fatally Jesus’ own words in John 6, “unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.”

Any teaching also that the Eucharist is open to all baptized people *with no other caveat* is also against the teaching of St Paul who exhorts us to examine ourselves, and against the living witness of the Church which teaches us that though we are surely invited by grace, our preparation for the Eucharist (Prayer, fasting, and recent confession) is vital to our spiritual life, especially that we not “eat and drink condemnation unto ourselves”.

As an Orthodox priest, I am no Anglo- or Roman-Catholic, though I can defend my dear Anglo-catholic and Roman friends’ belief in the Eucharistic presence of Christ–this is not “magic”. Please. You are fighting some medieval excess in 2009. No?

It might also help to read Luke and Cleopas on the Road to Emmaus. Jesus was not evident to them in the Word written, though Jesus’ illumination of their hearts is clear, but only in the breaking of the bread. There is a reason for this.

When shall we meet?