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Robert0199 said in July 19th, 2010 at 8:55 am

You start with the idea that waiting until marriage gives you the opportunity to get to know who you are and who the other is prior to becoming intimate in that way. Then moving to having no baggage to bring with you in that area and then exploring together what physical intimacy is about.

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Danny said in July 19th, 2010 at 9:00 am

“detached and somewhere in the “conversation” they lose sight of the fact they’re speaking to someone created in God’s image and for whom Christ died, and they alienate others.”
Insufficient understanding of a Holy God. Responses should always be given in context. A quick reading of 1Cor will tell you that the church in corinth was participating in all kinds of debauchery. Paul’s response? Tell them the Gospel AGAIN and AGAIN. They are either a wheat or a tare.
Also, the lack of church discipline in an age of individual democracy institutes no fear on the part of the perp.

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Danny said in July 19th, 2010 at 9:02 am

Robert,
A very pragmatic response that might work for Americans(functional atheists). No mention of offending a Holy God who put them together with an intimate intention on their well being.

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Sibyl said in July 19th, 2010 at 9:17 am

“What constructive and distinctly Christian offering do I/you/we bring to the emerging cultural conversation?” Simply to obey God. To go against the grain of the culture.

To further answer that question, I would think about the consequences of disobedience…and my thoughts go back to this article.

The Church, and Abraham’s descendants and Israel, were supposed to be the shining witness, an example of a people and nation that lived in communion and agreement with God and His Law. The Church should be and act among the nations as a representative, vehicle, and instrument of God’s grace, mercy, redemption, truth, love and life upon the earth.

There is an inviolable spiritual law/principle/reality at work that when we sin/rebel, we ‘give place to the devil’ allowing or opening the door for the influence of evil in our heart/soul and body…and there are always unpleasant, damaging, negative, even deadly consequences to that. There is another inviolable spiritual law – We reap what we sow. (Galatians 5:24; 6:7-8)

We cannot break God’s laws (which are based on His Indestructible Eternal Being); we only break ourselves when we attempt to do so. We are free to sin, but we cannot make sin or its consequences healthy, happy or holy.

It is a scandal and travesty of the worst kind when the Church tries to change or deny God’s laws – this is as malicious as changing or taking down road or warning signs that lead to the deaths of others. A church that teaches falsehood is a synagogue of satan. (Revelation 2:9; 3:9)

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steptom said in July 19th, 2010 at 9:18 am

Steve – thanks for lobbing a rather hot potato our way as you prepare your escape. Hopefully, there will be a minimum of rubble awaiting your return.

There are several issues and topics for discussion here. The issues I see involve God’s plan as revealed in scripture, the biological impact of ‘hooking up’ on pair-bonding dynamics, and the sociological impact of current beliefs. How we discuss them should be focused on keeping the issues separate and keeping the discussion respectful. The primary difficulty I’ve had to learn to overcome is the circular logic trap that shuts down respectful debate.

Our society has become adept at the post-modern art of “spin” (We used to call that ‘lying’ here in the South). When discussing one of these topics, another of the topics is injected. This sends us down frustrating rabbit trails of the pursuit of a TRUTH that seems to be a rapidly moving target. It is easy, as a result, to surrender to the viewpoint that either TRUTH cannot be personally discerned, which leads to reliance on those who claim to have solved the problem or, worse yet, TRUTH depends on personal opinion (and all opinions have equal value, right?).

The more frustrating the ‘debate’ gets, the more we rely on questioning the motives/credentials of the proponents of different points of view. The resulting angst usually leads to the superficiality of sloganeering (the “You don’t care if women die!” hyperbolic fallback of the more radical pro-abortion activists, for example).

If anyone lacks the confidence to engage in discussions about hooking-up, please know that latest research proves what our grandmothers already knew:
– Our physical pair-bonding mechanisms are impaired to a degree that directly corresponds to the the number of sexual partners we’ve had. In men this includes the ‘fantasy partners’ found in pornography. In women, idealized Internet romantic relationships are currently having a huge impact on marriages. In a species that God wired to mate for life, this is tragic. This dynamic leads to the next topic.
– From a socio-economic vantage vantage point the devastating effects of indiscriminate ‘mating’ has severely torn the fabric of our society. According to US Census figures, fewer than 25% of households with children in the US are traditional (both bio parents) nuclear families. The rest are stepfamilies, single parent families (over 60% of whom never married) or part of the stunning explosion of cohabitation – a form of transient stepfamily that is the most harmful system for both the adults and the children (who have NO idea what an adult’s family role is other than to come and go from their lives in the pursuit of personal fulfillment). This is usually described as a “trial marriage” (delusional) or “serial monogamy” (a vacuous attempt at being ‘hip’ or sophisticated).
– God’s plan for us as found in scripture is now what the latest legitimate research (secular and ‘faith-based’) that is being adopted by the counseling profession is reaffirming. The days of “I’m OK, You’re OK” are thankfully disappearing.

In sum: The first two subjects prove to be the perfect description of a social structure that is “spherically wrong” (any way you look at it). The third one is the remedy. You don’t even have to be able to quote the appropriate scriptures. We are now in the enviable position of having current scientific best practices mostly in agreement with God’s word.

This is a huge mission field. We need to individually engage with what is now the new majority. This is what we’ve been commanded to do. And we don’t have to invent the process. The best methodology is to establish individual relationships in which people feel comfortable to ask questions or state their views. You then have the opportunity to respond with respectful QUESTIONS. In the process of trying to educate you, your friend will often recognize the folly of the position they’ve been fed.

Jesus warned against getting into theological arguments for a reason. The Bible has been tremendously deconstructed in the minds of the post-moderns (‘Mosaics’). They have no worldview that includes much of what is actually in there. Bringing them around will not be an event but rather a process. If we unilaterally remove the confrontational dynamic, it is much easier to convince someone by using their own brain power. Whether or not they acknowledge it (or it’s existence), they are desperate for the TRUTH. And we know where to find it.

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Mark Cooke said in July 19th, 2010 at 9:18 am

Bill Hull’s book “Choose the Life” focuses on the time intensive process of equipping the saints, generally known as discipleship. Cell church models usually describe it as the “two wings” of one on one training and corporate worship that sends people out (missio) to engage their worlds.

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Heather Griffin said in July 19th, 2010 at 10:06 am

FYI- Dale S. Kuehne’s recent book, “Sex and the iWorld: Rethinking Relationships Beyond an Age of Individualism” is perfect for this conversation.

http://www.amazon.com/Sex-iWorld-Rethinking-Relationship-Individualism/dp/0801035872/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279551504&sr=8-1

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Danny said in July 19th, 2010 at 10:18 am

What i meant in the first post was that the perp and I have an insufficient understanding of the Holiness of God. Not Steve’s quote.

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Timothy Fountain said in July 19th, 2010 at 11:52 am

I think we need a sincere Baby Boomer to come out with a “Confession.” We were all “hooking up” before it was called that – OK, maybe some of the social conventions of dating remained but sex came up early in our relationships and was a shortcut to intimacy… and our stunted relationship skills manifested in our atrocious divorce rates and all the attendant fallout on our kids.

The late porn star Marilyn Chambers said something like, “I would tell people that doing porn leaves a part of you dead.”

Anyway, some sort of authentic testimony to the real costs of sex as a surrogate for real relationship building. Not a harangue, but hopefully some testimony to what went wrong and whatever healing and blessing the witnesses found in Christ.

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Tom said in July 19th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

I would begin with my own story and go from there. I would share the fallout and utter confusion that can take over when we “hook up”, when we have sex before we are “ready”. I might try to explain how the fallout of an impulse decision followed me for years. When those experiences are buried or not “addressed” it became an even more destructive thing. I would share that after tons of prayer with folks who cared and loved me, I see now what I couldn’t see then. I would also share that God restores things better than they were to begin with.

I think Timothy (above) is on the right trail.
What can we bring? We can bring our stories. Honestly and humbly. We hope our stories reflect (and we can articulate) part of the glory of a great and loving God.

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Rosemary said in July 20th, 2010 at 7:51 am

Interesting posts! I think this is a huge issue for the Church and for the people in it. I agree with what Timothy said… the culture of hooking up is not a new thing.

Personal stories are a wonderful way to convey to others the majesty of what God is doing but also a warning to not repeat the same mistakes. We have to recognize that our audience is a fragmented, multiple personality. It is not so simple to communicate the warnings of repeated sexual encounters outside of marriage. The real question is how do we communicate hope and then show our communities what it looks like to be put back together into one whole.

This particular issue has been heavy on my heart. I’m still working it out myself. I also think one major step forward is to talk about it; to not be afraid of calling it by its name to those around us. Sex should not be an off limits topic… tv, movies, magazines, music all have no problems telling individuals that there’s nothing sacred about it. Church should step it up… begin the dialogue. (Church meaning people)