h/t: Matt Kennedy
Just watched this interview from MSNBC with Rob Bell. Devastating. Reminds me of Christohper Hitchens’ dismanteling of Marilyn Sewell.
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What do you think? I’ve read parts of the book so far, but haven’t completed it.
Ouch! He needed to trade Nooma for No Mas!
from an interview Rob Bell did yesterday, transcript here:
http://www.patheos.com/community/philosophicalfragments/2011/03/15/rob-bell-interview-transcript/
(interviewer)
Your book has been, even before anyone had read it, criticized as being heretical. It seemed to me that a lot of the stuff that you write in the book is stuff that other people have written before. [Laughter] I mean that in the nicest way.
(R.B.)
Yeah, actually in the Preface I say that there’s nothing new here.
(Int.)
I guess what I’m asking is, aren’t you just a mainline Protestant posing as an evangelical? Aren’t you just saying what Episcopalians have been saying for fifty or sixty years?
(R.B.)
Do I make some claims to originality? No. Do I think that I am evangelical and orthodox to the bone? Yes.
between these 2 interviews he gets pretty beat up I think.
That was painful to watch…and really sad too.
I don’t believe I’ve ever seen someone squirm so much when being interviewed.I’ve seen pastors get grilled before by an anchor because they dare to say Jesus is the only way and they were unflappable. Bell doesn’t know what to do or what to say. I think he is generally surprised at the criticism of his book and I’ll bet he’s taking some of that very personally.
Rob’s right about that belief existing in the history of christendom. Eastern Orthodox have a hope that it’s true, but don’t bank on it. Catholics pray for the salvation of all souls, including the departed, w/the presumption they are in Pu…rgatory. Many evangelicals hold to this loosely, and a growing number more firmly to anihilationism. I think you have to do violence to scripture to hold to either position, much in the same way some see homosexual marriage sanctioned in the bible. Most of us have no problem w/the unrepentant murderer given a life sentence in prison, then why should such a person be set free to spread evil in Heaven
Pretty sad to watch… I felt for him (Bell), but only like I do when I watch someone throw ideas around and not back them up with good, sound theory. It is almost as if Bell wrote a book to share ideas, thoughts and was waiting for others to correct or dispute those thoughts….
He reminds me of the leadership of the Episcopal Social Club. He can’t give a clear answer to anything. In fact, he often didn’t even address the specific question asked. He keeps talking, but nothing ever gets said.
@Brett – I think it’s all very sad. The book is as bad as he reviews indicate. I’m not surprised, though, the trail he’s currently traveling is visible in Velvet Elvis. The Nooma videos escape, for the most part, as it’s mostly visual and very little theology is presented.
Everyone deserves to be fogiven. No matter the sin. Whether it be muder or lying. God forgives all sinners. Col 2:13 ” When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins.” He didnt say only the theifts will be forgiven, he said ALL our sins are fogiven.
Totally agreed. I am interested in finishing the book.
I think that Martin Bashir was aggressive but I do not think that Rob Bell was caught off guard or “gutted”. I relate to Rob Bell in this video and I think that he is doing more to win completely lost souls to Christ than a lot of the other modern evangelicals. Most young people do not relate to Charles Stanley or Joel Osteen or even Super He-Man Mark Driscoll. I am not saying Rob Bell is right, but I relate to the wondering and speculation about whether any of us “have it right.”
@ Ashley – I mostly agree with your comment. Two distinctions I would make: no one deserves to be forgiven. We deserve judgement. And, the Bible verse you quote has that understanding as its context. We are in Christ, however, forgiven. That is mercy – undeserved and unmerited. Secondly, that’s not the topic of Bell’s book.
@ Hank – fascinating. I thought Bell did as badly as one could do. He had no coherent – or biblical – answer for any question posed by Bashir; beginning with the question about is God good but unable – there are biblical answers. I’d also disagree that he’s “doing more to win completely lost souls to Christ.” I don’t know that what he currently presents is Christianity. So, while he’s winning them to something, I’m not sure it’s the Jesus revealed in Scripture. Lastly, I don’t share Bell’s angst over whether or not any of us have it right. I think we see through a glass darkly and we must begin and remain in a posture of humility, but the Christian faith is a revelatory faith. We do know somethings.
Goodness, Steve! What have you done to me? I just spent 3 hours reading critiques and watching videos and researching church leaders, and I don’t usually care about this stuff- ha! At the very least, the argument forces me (and hopefully others) to think hard about what we believe and why, as well as remind us to be iron sharpening iron and not just sponges who absorb whatever christian message trickles in our direction. Thanks for offering iron and not sponge!
I’m always curious as to why people think that just because someone is “winning souls” that they are worthy of getting a “get out of jail free card” for lack of better words. Winning souls for what? For whom? Salvation only starts when we confess Jesus as our Savior and Lord. But if the one who brings you to that point of confession is himself deceived, what do you think is going to happen to these new converts? They do not know what sound doctrine is (or the true person of Jesus), so what lies ahead of them is nothing but confusion as they are left to sort out what is Jesus and what isn’t! The true Gospel cannot take root in their hearts because that seed was never actually planted, so these souls will pretty much just fall away. Rob Bell and others like him deserve the scrutiny and the pressure they come under when they decide to share their particular brand of Christianity with the world. Yes, there is some truth in their message, but there is always a little bit of truth in every lie. Otherwise you wouldn’t believe it.
It’s amazing to step back and look at what Bell is trying to do here in light of what he is actually accomplishing.
Bell’s claim is that he is trying to “bring it down” to the level of real people with real lives (he referenced the woman whose pastor abused her, the girl on the plane, etc.). The reality, however, is that he is doing it apart from what is revealed in Scripture. He’s taking a simple truth (that we deserve death but were spared in Christ) and overcomplicating it. God’s grace is huge, yes…but that doesn’t mean we just sit around and do nothing, ignoring the mission that he sent us on. It’s like winning the lottery and then just sitting on a pile of money and counting it in our basement. What a waste.
I think most of you are wrong. Bell has shown in the past that he really doesn’t give a crap what people think or say about him or his media. And all this interview did for me was show the arrogance and prejudice behind the people who are opposing Rob. Really, when did berating someone with unanswerable questions and not letting your interviewed person talk, qualify for good journalism? All of you who are jumping on this wagon saying that Rob took a beating are just trying to get behind everyone who is afraid of anything new.
@Matt – What questions were asked that were unanswerable? Bell had many opportunities to speak and I don’t believe he was berated. He was questioned and when he evaded answering or gave a non-answer, the journalist pushed back. Should a journalist toss soft pitches and not explore the topic? This interviewer was very well read and clearly understood exactly was he was asking.
And what exactly is Rob Bell saying that is new? Bell himself, in the forward to his book, wrote, “nothing in this book hasn’t been taught, suggested, or celebrated by many before me.” Of course, when you repeat something that’s been incorrect for 2,000 years, it’s still incorrect.
Agree with Steve on the interview. Not a huge Bashir fan – famous for the Micheal Jackson documentary – but I would expect Bell should have been more prepared for a leading, inflammatory, baiting interview (are there any other kind?). Giv…en the book reviews, I would have expected he wanted to do the interview in order to defend it intelligently and perhaps theologically. He looked shocked, uncomfortable, and did not offer any kind of a coherent defense. It left me thinking he has been advised that “any publicity is good publicity” and now his goal is to ride the controversy because this will sell books. I am worried that this Facebook thread somewhat validates this…how many now want to read this book? Further, interviews like this just give the media want they often want – a chance to disparage/mock/ridicule Christians.
@Jim–I see what you mean, but I can assure you I have no interest in reading his book.
Thanks for posting this video. I missed it when it aired. To start with the book title is as pompous as any book in recent memory. This guy needs to stop writing and start playing guitar and singing. I think he wants to be a rock star instead of a pastor. A pastor tells the truth regardless of it’s popularity. Stop trying to be so “cool”. The clothes, the look, the attitude…
This guy is hugely popular, or at least was. He should be more responsible with his theology. I’m guessing he wanted to highlight the mystery of love in his book. He instead highlighted the love of mystery. We do know somethings Rob. It’s ok to say. People will still follow Jesus because they don’t need trendy books… they need foundational truth… they need Jesus.
and Matt… “afraid of anything new”… “NEW” does not mean it is good or true. Sometimes it does and most of the time it does not. I agree the interview was in poor taste. If we can blame anyone we should blame the publisher for allowing such pop culture crap theology to published to begin with.
@Matt. Thanks for your comments. I would say that you are exactly the kind of person I had in mind when I decided to post the recent posts about Rob Bell and his theology in the book, Love Wins. With that in mind, here is my initial response to the issues you raise:
“Bell has shown in the past that he really doesn’t give a crap what people think or say about him or his media.”
Agreed. And that’s a problem. It demonstrates a massive amount of arrogance. It also reflects a bit of hypocrisy as that is the exact critique he levels against the institutional – or whatever kind of – Christianity from which he seeks to differentiate himself.
“And all this interview did for me was show the arrogance and prejudice behind the people who are opposing Rob.”
Really? I didn’t know MSNBC was aligned with the critics of Rob Bell. I simply thought they saw through the evasive, vague and vapid answers he proffered. Equally, Bashir is clearly very familiar with biblical, historical orthodox Christianity; and, he seemed to be very clear that Bell has departed from this stream. Sad, don’t you think, that a secular news program can discern a departure from the story and a theologically trained pastor cannot?
“When did berating someone with unanswerable questions”
They were not unanswerable questions. He refused to answer them. There’s a significant difference. Furthermore, considering Rob Bell is a graduate of Fuller Seminary I am quite confident, actually, that those very questions were addressed, more than once, in his education.
“and not letting your interviewed person talk, qualify for good journalism?”
There’s a difference between talking and saying something. It is completely reasonable for the journalist to expect the person interviewed to answer a simple question. This was not “gotcha” journalism. It was a sit down in a television studio most likely arranged by Bell’s agent. And, instead of answering straightforward questions with honest answers, Bell trotted out canned answers, or non-answers (his comments about the earthquake in Japan), and tried to work his talking points.
“All of you who are jumping on this wagon”
Fascinating. You do realize that ‘this wagon’ you think people are jumping on is a 2000 year old faith story? And you realize that it is more apt to say Bell has jumped off the wagon and those on the wagon are calling after him for him to return?
“everyone who is afraid of anything new”
Nooma was new. Fresh worship styles are new. Jesus said, “feed my sheep,” not, “experiment on my guinea pigs.” The “new” theology espoused by Bell is really just old error.
This is a humorous interview, not because Rob is “squirming”, but because Martin Bashir thinks he’s backing Rob into a corner. The only problem is, the corner isn’t there.
Rob is simply bringing up questions that Christians have always had about hell (http://ryangear.com). Turns out that Rob isn’t as easy a target as Michael Jackson.
@Ryan Gear – You overstate your case with a similar alacrity as Bell does his.
You might more accurately write that “some Christians” rather than the blanket statement of “Christians.” Some Christians have always had questions about every matter of faith – from the divinity of Jesus to the full humanity of Jesus.
On this topic Bell is not swimming within the wide channel of the historic and biblical witness of the faith.
@Jimmy! I am thoroughly appalled and nonplussed by your comment, “This guy needs to stop writing and start playing guitar and singing.” I mean please, let’s fight fair! Do you have any idea how hard it is to play guitar and sing at the same time? This is the same kind of prejudice that assumes that all black people have good rhythm when, in fact, I had a black mail man years ago who simply could not clap on the 2 and 4. There is a place in purgatory for him.
Furthermore, do you fail to recognize that some of the world’s best singing guitarists, and guitar playing vocalists for that matter, are also some of the world’s finest writers? The rest of them don’t even bother to try to sing while they play! Look at Eddie Van Halen, Pat Metheny, Eric Johnson, Chet Atkins (most of the time), Robert Fripp, Django Reinhardt, Andres Segovia, Al Di Meola, and Tommy Emmanuel to name a few. I mean…to ask one of those guys to sing while playing their guitar would be like asking if God can make a rock so big that he can’t lift it … or, Is God all powerful but doesn’t care about the catastrophe in Japan or does he care but isn’t all powerful … as if these were the only two options which constitutes a false dilemma in logic.
@ Dwight: Django Reinhardt? Al Di Meola? The vault is deep, my friend…very impressive. I had to Google Di Meola.
As for Bashir, I agree with you about the question he posed. Those were two impossible choices (although as Steve has pointed out, there are ways of answering that question in light of what we see in the Word).
@ Jimmy: Dwight is right. Playing and singing at the same time is hard and, in some cases, is just downright dangerous.
Also, does it count if you clap on 1 and 3 instead of 2 and 4? I mean, it’s not ideal but….
Honestly the saddest thing is that he sounds like a bona fide idiot. Which stinks because on the nooma videos I always thought he seemed so poised… so to see him stumbling through this interview makes him seem like a phony who can only spit back rehearsed lines.
P.S. Dwight, I love you and your music!
The squirming and non-answers in this interview reminded me of similar behavior by a certain PB to whom similar questions were posed.